Monica Rainge, Dir. of Land Retention & Advocacy, The Federation of Southern Cooperatives/Land Assistance Fund

VERNON OAKES: Good morning everybody, this is Vernon Oakes. Happy New Year again, have a great, great year. There are some things going on that we don’t necessarily like, but we’re gonna figure out how we can enjoy life, even with our new President. But, this morning, we’re gonna talk about land retention, and African American land ownership. And we have Monica Rainge on the line with us this morning. Good morning, Monica.

MONICA RAINGE: Good morning, Vernon, how are you this morning?

VERNON OAKES: I’m excellent. And yourself?

MONICA RAINGE: I am doing great this morning. Thank you for the opportunity to be here.

VERNON OAKES: Great. You work with the Federation of Southern Cooperatives. How long has that organization been in existence, and what’s its mission?

MONICA RAINGE: The Federation was started in 1967. So, we are actually celebrating our 50th year this year. And for 50 years now we have been dedicated to the mission of creating sustainable and self-supporting rural communities that are supported essentially by a network of farmers, cooperatives, and credit unions. Today the Federation operates in about seven states, and we have about 75 cooperatives we support and about 10,000 members and affiliates across those states.

VERNON OAKES: So, you don’t have much to do?

MONICA RAINGE: There’s a lot of work to do, for sure. And you know, our work has consistently centered around three things, cooperative development, land retention, and advocacy. And what we have found is that in the poorest rural communities, this is where we see the biggest lack of resources. So, our work is very critical to helping these communities become self-supporting, and self-sufficient, as well as finding ways to generate income and build land-based economics.

VERNON OAKES: So, co-op development, land retention, and advocacy. And advocacy, as I think of advocacy, is working within a political system to get done what you want done. Is that what you do with advocacy?

MONICA RAINGE: Well, from our perspective advocacy means that we allow our membership to create a platform for voicing their concerns, and ways that they can improve their community sustainability. And so, yes, we certainly encourage our membership to become self-determined and find ways that they can improve the policies that affect rural communities, and to get involved in that process.

VERNON OAKES: Isn’t it all politics?

MONICA RAINGE: Well, not all of it is politics. Oftentimes, it’s just communities coming together to make a decision about how certain land issues will affect the community, how to improve resources that will allow land owners to cultivate their land. So, much of it is more about, again, creating the self-determination within our communities, so that people are empowered to be able to make decisions which will impact them, and to improve their economic situation.

VERNON OAKES: So, I went to advocacy first, because I wanted to get an understanding of what advocacy is. I know what co-op development is, and I know what land retention is, at least I have an idea of the definition. If you take a definition of politics that I read once, and I really, really liked it — I don’t think it’s used this way that often — but a guy said that politics is when a group of people come together to solve a community problem. And too often I find that politicians perhaps don’t get elected to solve community problems, but they may get elected to figure out how they can make money for themselves, or for their family members, or friends.

VERNON OAKES: But, if you take that definition of politics, everything you said advocacy is — a group of people coming together, self-determined, to figure out how they can solve their community problems, or enhance their community, and it would work. Okay, I love it. Thank you. Now, how long you’ve been doing this work?

MONICA RAINGE: Well, I’ve worked in the agricultural sector for about 20 years now.

VERNON OAKES: You only look like you’re 25, so how’d you do that?

MONICA RAINGE: Well, thank you very much. It is extremely rewarding work, and so maybe my joy is reflecting the fact that I get the opportunity to work with some of the best people across the southeast as a part of our membership. And I actually started as a college intern with the Federation of Southern Cooperatives in 1996. And I think it lit a fire in me to want to do this type of work, to go on to get a law degree. Because I realized that in order to affect the type of change that we need, much of what these communities lack is access to justice, and access to the lawyers who can help them to clear title, and deal with the land retention issues that they face.

MONICA RAINGE: So, that inspired me to go to law school, and of course return to the Federation, and now be a part of the executive team of the Federation.

VERNON OAKES: So, what was your undergrad in?

MONICA RAINGE: My undergraduate work was in agricultural business. So, I started very early in life as a 4-H’er. And in 4-H I had the opportunity to experience a number of different types of agricultural experiences, including livestock judging, project competition. And I was able to go all the way to the master 4-H’er level of [SOUNDS LIKE: Georgia]. And after that experience I knew I wanted to major in agriculture in college. And I think, you know, when we look at creating a pipeline of professionals who want to do this type of work, we certainly have to look at starting that recruitment at very early ages — middle school, no later than high school — planting those seeds that agriculture is a wonderful profession to be in, because agriculture essentially ties us all to the land.

MONICA RAINGE: And there are so many opportunities in agriculture that any opportunity I get I try to speak with youth groups. The Federation actually conducts a youth camp every summer to try to steer young people into careers involving agriculture.

VERNON OAKES: You know, I’m talking out of Silver Springs, Maryland, Washington D.C. metropolitan area. And I would imagine most of the youth here don’t even know what 4-H is, let alone a career in agriculture. Although, a lot of people from the Washington D.C. area has come to D.C. from the south. D.C., Chicago, Detroit, New York. And I’ve either lived in those places, or visited them, and you get a lot of people from the south. And they have roots tied into the land, but they may have left the land. Which gets me to, you were telling me that African Americans owned about 15 million acres in 1910 and they’ve been losing it ever since. What is that about?

MONICA RAINGE: Well, it’s probably one of the greatest silent tragedies out there today, the loss of African American land in the rural south. You’re absolutely right, at the height of land ownership African Americans owned about 15 million acres in our country. And today I think that number has dwindled down to under 2.5 million. And African American land loss continues to be a huge issue, primarily due to the fact that African Americans own land as heirs’ property.

VERNON OAKES: As heirs’ property?

MONICA RAINGE: Yes.

VERNON OAKES: What’s heirs’ property?

MONICA RAINGE: Heirs’ property is a state of ownership that’s created basically when a person dies without a will, or without any type of succession plan, or plan to transfer their land. So, when they die without a will, legally we describe that as dying intestate. And when you die intestate–
VERNON OAKES: Okay, I’m sorry lawyer, attorney, Monica, but this is a problem for anybody, not just agriculture land or acres. It’s if you own a car, or if you just have a car, and some clothes, and furniture. So, whatever you have, life insurance, so you need a will, and if you die without a will that’s called intestate?

MONICA RAINGE: Yes, intestate. And there are intestate succession laws in each state that will then describe how your property will pass to your descendants. So, according to those laws, probably about 60 percent of African American land is passed without a will. So, when that property passes on to the descendants of the deceased person, they now own the property as tenants in common. Which means you have a group of owners who own one parcel of property. And they share joint ownership rights equally. And that problem is exacerbated when you have own of those owners die, and there’s–

VERNON OAKES: Wait, before you go to the next step I want to make sure that we are clear on the first thing. And so, if you die without a will then the state tells who gets the property, or whatever assets there are?

MONICA RAINGE: Right, right.

VERNON OAKES: Okay. So, if somebody has six children, even two, but let’s say four. If you have four children the first thing you’d need to do is do a will. So, you would say, if I have a house in Washington D.C. then each of those children gets 25 percent of it. Or, you could say, one child gets it all, and some other children get something else.

MONICA RAINGE: Right, and that’s the beauty of a will is that it allows you do basically decide how you want to transfer your land, and in what proportion you want to transfer it in. And then you have, of course, unlimited power to transfer that property to whomever you like, whether it’s your children, or not.

VERNON OAKES: And if you die without it, then the state comes in and says, this property will be divided by the four children first, normally?

MONICA RAINGE: Well, the state will establish an order of distribution. And that order of distribution typically involves your closest kin, blood kin, first. So, if you are married your spouse will typically have priority. Then your children, if you have children. If you’re not married and you don’t have children, then the state will decide who the closest next kin is to receive that property.

VERNON OAKES: Closest kin? Sounds like you from the South, girl.

MONICA RAINGE: I am, born and raised in Thomasville, Georgia.

VERNON OAKES: In Georgia?

MONICA RAINGE: Yes.

VERNON OAKES: You don’t have a big Georgia accent, but okay. So, we got the order of distribution. So, if you have a will you say what that distribution is, and it could be family members, or anybody else. And without it, then the state comes and says, this is the order of distribution?

MONICA RAINGE: Yes.

VERNON OAKES: Okay. So, you said 60 percent of African Americans that own land, they die without a will, and then the state says what that distribution is?

MONICA RAINGE: Absolutely.

VERNON OAKES: And if there were four children, and no spouse, the spouse has already passed, then it would be 25/25/25/25, I think, most states equally. But, if one of those children have passed, and that’s what I stopped you with, then it goes to their children.

MONICA RAINGE: Right, and let me just add, Vernon, that even to trigger the state’s intestate succession the family would have to petition the court to do a probate. One of the problems with African American ownership is the total lack of any probate administration for many a states through several generations.

VERNON OAKES: We gotta take our first break, I’m sorry. It’s just so much fun and so much information. Thank you very much. We’ll take our first break and we’ll be right back.

VERNON OAKES: Information is power. That’s WOL’s motto. And that’s why the National Co-operative Bank is sponsoring this program to give you information so that if you use that information you’ll have power. And today we’re talking to Monica Rainge from the Federation of Southern Co-ops. She’s out of Atlanta, Georgia, but grew up in Georgia — I forgot the city — and went to school for agriculture business, and then got a law degree so that she could help farmers, in particular Black farmers, keep their land, save their land.

VERNON OAKES: At one point there was 15 million acres. And I really want to get to knowing how we got that many acres in 1910. And then it’s down to like 2.5. We’ve lost six times the amount of land we used to have, we’ve lost. And before we started talking back, Monica, we were talking about succession and petitioning courts, we have Richard on the line. Richard do you have a comment or a question?

RICHARD: Thank you for having this program. And I really admired you, what’s your name — Maya — what’s your name?

MONICA RAINGE: Monica.

VERNON OAKES: Vernon Oakes, Monica, all right.

RICHARD: Monica, thank you for being there. I’ve talked with a lot of people. I grew up in the Washington area, by the way, the DC is very much South. And I don’t know why people don’t want to acknowledge it, but it really is. So, you’re not the only one from the South, we are Southern too. But, very few people — I talk with a lot of people — I have not run into one who had been a 4-H’er. So, they’ve missed out on some great opportunities. And I say this to encourage young people that agriculture is a very good field to go into. Why? Because now a lot of emphasis placed on home-grown, organic, and naturally grown things.

RICHARD: So, I think agriculture might be the way to go. But, I’m enjoying you. I do have one question, which is very embarrassing. I don’t remember what all the 4 H’s stand for. Could you remind me, please?

MONICA RAINGE: Heart, hand, health, and head.

VERNON OAKES: One more time, Monica.

RICHARD: Okay, well thank you very much, and I wish you all the success in the coming year, and in life.

MONICA RAINGE: Thank you so much. I appreciate your comment.

VERNON OAKES: Thank you, Richard. And what were those 4 H’s again?

MONICA RAINGE: Head, heart, hands, and health.

VERNON OAKES: Head, heart, hands, and health?

MONICA RAINGE: Yes.

VERNON OAKES: Okay. I had never even knew it — I just always knew it as 4-H. Going up in Bluefield, West Virginia, we had 4-H’s club. The Blacks didn’t join, it was mainly white people. So, I’m glad to see that Black folks further South, you all were in it. But, I didn’t even know what, Head, Heart, Hand, and Health.

MONICA RAINGE: Yes, the 4-H program was an extremely large part of shaping my career choice, and provided just a number of opportunities for me to be exposed to various agricultural experiences, to build my leadership skills, and my public speaking skills. And I am just forever grateful for those experiences with our local 4-H club.

VERNON OAKES: Fantastic. I love it. Okay, we’re gonna go back to you were saying most African Americans, they have to go to the court to do the probate. And you said that we don’t have probators. What did you say before?

MONICA RAINGE: Right, I wanted to make it clear to your listeners that the intestate succession process is not automatic. So, in order for a family to even get protection from the state to transfer that land to heirs through intestate succession, the heirs have to petition the court to have the estate probated and administered through the state. So, the problem for many African American families is they don’t have the resources or access to justice in their communities to even do the probate.

MONICA RAINGE: So, the land is passed down without any will or without any formal probate to successive generations. And so, the problem of land fragmentation occurs because the property — you started out with the example of the person who had four children. Well, let’s assume one of those four dies and they have five children. Well now, instantly we have nine people who own the property. And each time one of those descendants dies their heirs become owners. So, I have actually worked with families where there have been large groups, probably over 50 owners of one five acre tract of land.

MONICA RAINGE: And the difficulties with heirs’ property is that number one, you don’t have clear titles. And clear titles is simply proof of ownership, essentially. In 2005 when hurricane Katrina occurred in New Orleans many of the families who were devastated by that hurricane tried to seek government assistance to rebuild their properties through housing programs. And what they found out was because they lacked clear title, and their property was heirs’ property, they were not able to access those programs that could’ve been really critical in helping them to rebuild their community.

MONICA RAINGE: And you know, that was just one glaring example of how heirs’ property basically undermines landowners, because they are not able to access the government programs. Oftentimes we’re working with landowners and farmers in a rural setting. And because they have heirs’ property they are not allowed to participate or qualify for many of the government programs, which might be able to assist them in cultivating their farms, and also building land equity.

VERNON OAKES: Okay. If anybody out there has a question or comment of Monica, please call 1-800-450-7876. 1-800-450-7876. And if you don’t have a will and if you own anything, go get a will. I mean, that’s the first. No matter if you own land, or a house, or just a car, and a motorcycle, or whatever, get a will so you can pass it on, and so that your heirs then can get that low interest loan, or that grant, or those seeds, or whatever it might be. The government programs, more often than not, Monica you tell me if this is true, but what I’ve read and seen is that back in the day, and maybe today, there may be FDA, or somebody may have a program to help farmers, and if you don’t have ownership then you can’t get that low interest loan, or that grant, or those seeds, or whatever it might be.

VERNON OAKES: Too often, Blacks, they wouldn’t give the program to Blacks, but if you did not have ownership then you really couldn’t get it anyway.

MONICA RAINGE: Right. The lack of clear title, or proof of title, is one of the major barriers to accessing USDA programs. So, particularly the credit and lending programs require that you show proof of title. And unfortunately for heirs’ property owners they won’t be qualified from any of those programs, simply because of that heirs’ property status. And it’s the same thing if an heirs’ property owners were to go to a conventional bank to try to get money, or refinance the land. The obstacle for them is going to be the heirs’ property status, and lack of clear title.

MONICA RAINGE: And the reason why that exists is because everybody owns it, but nobody owns it, so to speak. And anytime you enter into any contractual obligation for the land either all of the heirs have to agree to enter into that contractual obligation, or they can’t do it. Even in a situation where the heirs are attempting to do something like sell timber. That timber contract, because it’s heirs’ property, has to be entered into by all of the heirs as joint participants.

VERNON OAKES: So, the example we gave is you got granddad owned the land, he had four children. And so each of those children would have 25 percent each of the land, they would own 25 percent. And then one of those children passed away, and they had five children. So, you got the children have 25 percent each. Then the grandchildren, the five of ‘em, end up with 5 percent each.

MONICA RAINGE: Right, so the grandchildren would actually divide the 25 percent that was owned by their parents.

VERNON OAKES: Yeah, I’m saying if it were five of them, in the example we were using then they would have 5 percent each. And now you’ve gotta get nine people to agree to sell the timber, or to get a contract. And the contract could be a very, very good one with USDA. Maybe there’s a one percent loan so that they can buy what they need to plant, and then they pay it back when they harvest. So, it could be really, really good programs, financially good programs, but they cannot take advantage of them because all you need is one person that is angry at somebody. I guess it gets to some very interesting family dynamics, right?

MONICA RAINGE: Absolutely. I think much of what we do as a part of our land retention program is we offer the families an opportunity to sit down and meet with us, to do a family mediation conference. And during that family mediation conference, the key goal is to get the families on one accord as to what their land values are, and what do they see for the future of the land. How do we maximize the economic potential and return from the land in such a way that we can create intergenerational wealth for the family?

VERNON OAKES: And everybody benefits from that. We got Miss Kerry on the line. Could you give us your question before we go on break, and maybe we’ll answer it after break?

KERRY: Yes, I wanted to ask you the question and that is this, now if you’re able to purchase the land from other heirs, don’t you think that is a good way to do it? You know, like, if you have a mother and parents, but the mother accepts the ownership to the land, and she has five children, but if you buy from the mother and pay her off, then the other children, the mother would be buying with the children, but the land would then belong to the person who bought from the mother. Am I correct? I’m not a lawyer.

MONICA RAINGE: Yes, the ultimate goal for us is to try to preserve the land within the family unit, and preserve it as a part of the family legacy and history So, what you’re describing, essentially is called an intrafamily buy out. We encourage–

KERRY: Intra?

MONICA RAINGE: Intrafamily buy out. We encourage family members to purchase interests from other heirs.

VERNON OAKES: Monica, can you hold on and we’ll take this up right after the break. We’ll take our second break, but please stay and we’ll be right back.

VERNON OAKES: Welcome back, everybody. This is Vernon Oakes. The National Co-operative Bank is sponsoring this program, called Everything Cooperative. And NCB’s mission is to help cooperatives grow by supporting and being an advocate for America’s cooperatives, and their members, placing special emphasis on serving the needs of communities that are economically challenged. And the folks in the Black belt, and what is that, thirteen states Monica, are economically challenged.

MONICA RAINGE: Absolutely.

VERNON OAKES: And National Bank has been working with the Federation, and continues to work with them in different kinds of ways to help folks, and that’s what they do. And Kerry we’re gonna come back to you. Monica, you were explaining some of the things that you could do. I forgot what you called that, intrafamily buy out?

MONICA RAINGE: Intrafamily buy outs.

VERNON OAKES: So, you wanna keep telling Kerry about that?

MONICA RAINGE: Sure. We think the intrafamily buy out strategy is one of the most successful strategies, because it allows us to, again, preserve the family ownership and legacy. And heirs who want to sell their interests have options to sell to people who are within the family, and that preserves the family unit and preserves the family land. So, we really encourage this as one of the best strategies for heirs’ property owners to try to narrow the number of owners to people who really have a strong interest in keeping the land within the family.

VERNON OAKES: Kerry, does that answer your question? Okay, I guess we lost her. So, Monica, we’re gonna keep going. So, you said that’s one of the successful strategies, and perhaps the best. But, what other strategies do you do to help out the heirs?

MONICA RAINGE: Well, the Federation of Southern Cooperatives focuses also on how do we build land-based economics. And for us, that’s the question around land utilization within some of these poor, rural communities. And so, our strategy there is to try to help people to understand how to maximize and optimize the use of their land. One of the ways that we’re doing that is through our sustainable forestry program. The Federation operates an agro-forestry center in Epes, Alabama.

MONICA RAINGE: And much of the work of that center focuses on how we improve land utilization, and how we basically train people on sustainable forestry, how to use forestry and agriculture as a way to build their land-based economics. And it also becomes an opportunity for us to work with our cooperative memberships in building out various income generating programs and services from the land.

VERNON OAKES: So, when you said land-based economics, you’re basically just talking about making money?

MONICA RAINGE: Absolutely.

VERNON OAKES: Okay, and being profitable, and having enough to eat, okay, and pay your bills and maybe have something left over at the end of the year.

MONICA RAINGE: Absolutely, because, you know, at the end of the day we think that our efforts to save Black owned land has to be a two-pronged approach. We have to be able to help people clear titles, so that their property is no longer classified as heirs’ property. But moving forward we also have to be able to show them a way to make money. At the end of the day, you know, it’s all about keeping people on the land, and making the land profitable. So, our strategy of estate planning, succession planning, has to also include land utilization.

MONICA RAINGE: And this is why it’s so significant that we focus on things like agricultural development and sustainable forestry, which will then give them a path towards building intergenerational wealth.

VERNON OAKES: How does the forestry work?

MONICA RAINGE: So, with sustainable forestry, what we have found is that many African Americans don’t have a forestry management plan. And what that means is if you have 20 acres and there are trees growing on that property, in most cases, the trees just kinda happened because of mother nature. And they’re not managed in such a way that you’re gonna maximize forestry tree growth, or the return from a timber sale. So, unmanaged forestry land essentially has a broken value chain. And what we have done is we partner with families to say, we can show you how to maximize your forestry product, by getting a forestry management plan through the USDA.

MONICA RAINGE: And that will also allow you to access other programs, which may support your land. For example, irrigation, tree planning, site preparation for tree planting, chemical sprays. So, these activities are oftentime offered through the USDA on a cost-shared type basis to the land owner, but the land owner first has to be eligible to access those programs. So, there’s our heirs’ property–

VERNON OAKES: You gotta own the land.

MONICA RAINGE: Yeah, you have to show proof of ownership of the land. So, we’ve got to get over the first hurdle, which is clearing up the title to help them get eligible to access the programs, which will then allow you to start making money on the land.

VERNON OAKES: Okay Monica, we have Sandra on the line. Sandra?

SANDRA: Hello.

VERNON OAKES: Hi.

SANDRA: Yes, I would like to know, you are giving out very important information. Do you have newsletters or booklets that can spread this information that you’re giving?

MONICA RAINGE: Absolutely. The Federation has all types of news — we actually have brochures, and land owner manuals. Most of them are available on our website.

VERNON OAKES: And that’s federation.coop.

SANDRA: Okay, federation.coop. Okay, thank you.

VERNON OAKES: Thank you, Sandra.

SANDRA: Bye-bye.

VERNON OAKES: Okay, now we know again you have to clear that title from heirs’ property to where you have clear, clear title, in order to get into these programs from USDA for sustainable forestry, to manage it. And so, you help folks to know how to go in, and manage the forestry so that they can get a good return on the sale, to maximize the sale of the timber?

MONICA RAINGE: Yes.

VERNON OAKES: And so, if they had 20 acres you could perhaps have 10 in forestry and 10 in agriculture?

MONICA RAINGE: Absolutely. The purpose of having that forestry management plan is that we have professionals who work with us. The Federation has a registered forester that we work very closely within our [SOUNDS LIKE: CS] professionals who will come to your land and make an assessment as to what the best uses for the land are, and help to come up with a plan that will, again, maximize the return on the land.

VERNON OAKES: Maximize the return on the land. Why is heirs’ property owners say they are land rich and cash poor?

MONICA RAINGE: Great question. We often describe heirs’ property owners as land rich and cash poor, because they have land, but that land is not being used as a source of wealth and economic stability for the family. And so, if you own 20 acres — I like to sort of describe heirs’ property owners as the haves and the have-nots. They have the land, but it doesn’t represent a source of wealth for them. So, our goal is to unlock the wealth potential of heirs’ property, and to put people on the path of generating income, and changing basically the financial picture for the entire family.

MONICA RAINGE: So, I like to think of our heirs’ property and land retention program as growing the family tree, and helping people to ultimately build wealth.

VERNON OAKES: Build wealth, I like that, build wealth. Now, I had to try to figure out what an acre of land is, and I did a little research some time ago. And it said, an acre of land is about the size of a football field, from goalpost to goalpost, and from sideline to sideline. So, that gave me an idea of what an acre of land is. ‘Cause I didn’t have that in my head. So, if you had 20 acres it’s sort of like you have 20 football fields, from goalpost to goalpost, sideline to sideline, sort of stacked up together, side by side in some kinda way. And you have 10 of those acres — 10 of those football fields — in forestry and timber, and 10 of them in agriculture, growing things. Okay, to create wealth, financial wealth.

MONICA RAINGE: And let me just add there, Vernon, that, you know, heirs’ property is not just a local problem. We see it as a regional issue, because it affects so many different economic systems within the region. When land is not being used at its highest and best use, that basically stifles the economics of a community. But, what we have seen is that when we go in and we assist heirs’ property owners, they then start contributing to the revenue sources of that community. They start building the tax bases through their business ownership and business creation, from the businesses they can create on the land, or the cooperative development that they can do within that community.

MONICA RAINGE: So, we see heirs’ property as one of the ways that we can unlock wealth potential, not just for a local economy, but for a regional economy.

VERNON OAKES: So, one of the reasons I like co-ops — and co-ops for anybody that has not been listening to this program is any business you can think of. If it’s owned by the employees it’s called a worker-owned cooperative. If it’s owned by the people that uses the products or services it’s called a consumer cooperative. And then you have farmers and artists that come together to buy things together, and that’s called a purchasing cooperative. They could buy seed, or fertilizer, or they can even buy equipment and share it. Artists sometimes would buy a warehouse together and they’ll come in, and they would work there, or they would show their good, and to sell them. So, it’s people coming together to work together.

VERNON OAKES: And then on the other end of it you can have marketing co-ops where artists, and farmers, and other entities come together — groups of people — to sell their products. And in a purchasing co-op, and a marketing co-op, they have staff who become experts in either purchasing things or selling things, which the farmer can’t do it all and do it all well. So, the Federation of Cooperatives is a federation of co-ops. How many different types of co-ops do you have? Or how many cooperatives do you have that belong to the Federation?

MONICA RAINGE: So, we currently have about 75 cooperatives that we work with across seven states.

VERNON OAKES: How many states?

MONICA RAINGE: Seven states.

VERNON OAKES: Seven states, okay.

MONICA RAINGE: And that represents about 10,000 members and affiliates who are a part of those cooperatives.

VERNON OAKES: And I know you have credit unions, you have farmers, what other type of cooperatives do you have in the Federation?

MONICA RAINGE: We also have housing cooperatives. So, of course when we look at building self-sustaining communities, I think it’s difficult to have that conversation and look at that picture, without looking at the importance of building infrastructure from the ground up. And we think because of our presence with the agricultural cooperatives, the credit unions, and housing, we are actually addressing — we’re taking a holistic approach to building up communities.

VERNON OAKES: Okay, so you can build up community by making sure they have estate planning, they have their wills in place, and so that they know how their property goes down, and then you don’t have to go get lawyers, and go to the courts to try to figure out how that land will be owned. Okay, so that’s one of the things you try to get people to do right off. What are some of the successes you’ve had with heirs’ property work?

MONICA RAINGE: Well, the best success that we’ve had I would say is being able to help a family take land, and basically get a forestry management plan in hand, and now start to see a return on that land that they had not had before. So, our goal, number one, is to clear title. And once we have assisted a family in clearing that title, secondly we want to get a land utilization strategy, which includes ways that we can improve agricultural development on the land and keep it working land, or ways that we can show them how to use sustainable forestry as a way of generating income from the land.

MONICA RAINGE: So, I would say some of our biggest success stories are around families who have found themselves in a dire need to pay taxes on the land. One of the things that is often a burden to families in heirs’ property situations is who’s going to pay the taxes. And that is a recurring, annual obligation of the ownership. But as heirs’ property owners they’re all responsible for it. But oftentime in reality it falls on one person to make those payments each year and–

VERNON OAKES: And we’re going for our final break. I’m sorry to cut you off because this is so exciting. But we have our final break and then we have the last segment. It goes by real quick, Monica. We’ll be right back after the news and the weather and the traffic.

VERNON OAKES: Welcome back, everybody. This is Vernon Oakes with Everything Co-op. And you can get our information, and get past radio shows on our webpage, which is everything.coop. You just go to everything.coop. And we have Monica Rainge on the show with us today. And we were talking about forestry, and land management, and heirs’ property. And at once upon a time Blacks owned 15 million acres. 15 million acres and it’s down to 2.5 is the estimated now. And Monica’s talking to heirs’ or with people dying without a will, and all of the problems that come up with trying to get that land, and they cannot get help.

VERNON OAKES: Sometimes it’s hard to get help because of racism. But, if we don’t get help because of things that we did not do, people die without a will. And so, we gotta get people to get wills. The Federation has a Regional Heirs’ Property Center?

MONICA RAINGE: Yes.

VERNON OAKES: And are you the person in charge of that center?

MONICA RAINGE: I am in charge of the center. And the Regional Heirs’ Property Center was basically established to coordinate a collaborative and regional network of partnerships and resources to help us to address the systemic problems of heirs’ property throughout the Black Belt region. And what we realized again is that this is not a problem that simply affects locals communities. It affects our regional economic systems. And in order for us to address the problem we have to engage people from multi-disciplinary backgrounds. Because the problem is racial, it’s economic. Economics is social.

MONICA RAINGE: And I think the best way for us to come up with the policies and practices that will help us to eliminate this problem and some of the blight that we have seen that’s caused by heirs’ property in the communities, is to come together and think about collaborative solutions to this problem.

VERNON OAKES: Collaborative meaning we come together, we work together, and I like that. That’s what cooperatives are all about, and that’s one of the reasons I love cooperatives. Okay, so now we started talking about advocacy. So, what are some of the advocacy efforts that the Federation is doing now?

MONICA RAINGE: So, the Federation has always been involved in advocacy, particularly policies that affect African American farmers and land owners, but one of the primary advocacy tools that we have been a part of, and even organized is the Heirs’ Property Retention Coalition, which the Federation was one of the founding members of that coalition. And it essentially is a collaborative between a number of different organizations who are trying to address the heirs’ property issues that we’ve seen across the Southeast. And that particular organization have supported reform of laws affecting heirs’ property families, particularly as it relates to partition.

MONICA RAINGE: Now, we didn’t get to go into much discussion about partition, but we did mention intrafamily buyouts where sometimes land is sold to a family member. But, the opposite of that is when a land speculator or outsider comes in and purchases an interest from an heir, that outsider can actually force a sale of the heirs’ property. So, one of the policy reforms that we’re working on through the Uniform Partition of Heirs’ Property Act is advocating that states tighten their laws and due process regulation, so that in the event of a partition sale, number one, heirs have the opportunity to receive due notice of that sale.

MONICA RAINGE: So, it greatly improves the notice requirements. And it also ensures that there are some safeguards against the family not getting a fair market return on that land. And that if the family is in a position to possibly purchase that land, that they be able to do so.

VERNON OAKES: They have the first right of refusal or something like that?

MONICA RAINGE: Right, right, so–

VERNON OAKES: Okay, but let me understand partition law for a minute, because this is new to me, and I assume it’s new to other people out there. So, in our example, granddad passed away with four children, one of the children passed away and had five children. So, now you have nine people owning this land, three of the children, and five grandchildren. So, somebody comes in and talks to one of the grandchildren, and they want a new car, and some shoes, and they want to buy this from them for — I don’t know — if the value is 20,000 dollars they wanna give ‘em 5,000 for it.

VERNON OAKES: And they say fine, we’ll get some quick money here. And they’ve maybe never in the land. They live in Chicago and the land’s in Alabama. So, they get their five grand, and this person now is a one-fifth owner with eight other people. So, then what happens? That’s called a partition sale?

MONICA RAINGE: So, once that person becomes an owner of any status. So, it doesn’t matter how small their interest is, they can actually force a partition sale, by filing a petition with the court to force a sale. What that simply means is the court will have to honor that request. And now the land may be put up for auction or sale. And unless the family has the resources — which in most cases they don’t, because we said they’re land rich and cash poor — they don’t have the resources to competitively bid for this property. And so, in most cases the land is sold to an outsider. And this is the biggest risk that heirs’ property holds. And this is why we saw a need to create an advocacy effort around this, to join with the heirs’ property retention coalition, and try to enact a law, or laws across the Southeast.

MONICA RAINGE: And so far we’ve been successful in advocating that these laws be passed, and they’ve passed already in six states, which will now give heirs’ property owners greater protection against this type of land loss.

VERNON OAKES: So, in my example — I just did a quick math here — if that person that owned five percent, if it was worth 20,000 dollars and they accepted 5, then the whole parcel was worth 400,000. Five percent of X is equal to 20,000. I got 400,000 is what this land is worth. Then this person that bought it calls for a partition sale, and then there’s an auction. And it may not go for 400 because it’s in an auction on an auction block. And let’s say somebody says they’re gonna give 100,000 for it. And if nobody in the family — those three children and other four grandchildren — if they don’t have 100,000 dollars, then somebody’s bought a 400,000 dollar piece of property for 100,000 dollars.

MONICA RAINGE: Absolutely, absolutely.

VERNON OAKES: And if one of those children, or all three of ‘em, lived on that property, they gotta go.

MONICA RAINGE: And even more troubling, Vernon, is the fact that once you go through the court system to do the partition sale, much of the proceed will be eaten up by the court costs, the attorney fees, and other expenses, which may be related to this court action. So, at the end of the day the actual profit received by the individual heirs is going to be nominal.

VERNON OAKES: So, if I’m one of the children, and I’m living in there, and I have 25 percent, I was thinking I would get 25 percent of 100,000 dollars, if it sold for that. And so, it at least gets me started to go find me another place to live–

MONICA RAINGE: Well, in actuality, the truth is, like I said, once you take all those fees out, and the court costs, what you thought was 25,000 probably looks more like 10,000.

VERNON OAKES: All right, so now the house is gone, my parents’ house is gone, the land is gone, I don’t have a place to stay, and I’ve got 10,000 dollars from a 400,000 dollar piece of property. That is terrible.

MONICA RAINGE: Yes, absolutely. So, this is why we have to continue to give voice to these issues, because like I said, it’s an economic tragedy on a number of different levels. It robs communities of their legacy. It puts families in a position where essentially they have nothing to pass on to future generations. Their communities turn to blight because of heirs’ property. So, we have to continue to give voice to these issues. And we will continue to advocate at the national, state, and local levels for support of heirs’ property owners, as well as working in the trenches to help them resolve their heirs’ property issues, and develop a land utilization plan which is sustainable for their community.

VERNON OAKES: So, what I’m getting is that when we went from 15 million acres that Blacks owned in 1910 to approximately 2.5 million today, a lot of it was probably lost through heirs’ property.

MONICA RAINGE: Absolutely, absolutely.

VERNON OAKES: And so, folks moved to Chicago, or Detroit, or California. And they don’t live close to each other. They don’t know one of the heirs, they don’t know one another, don’t know how to locate each other. And then you can’t do the economic stuff. You can’t get money to do a forestry, or to do agriculture. And so, it sits there blighted. And the community goes down. And somebody comes in and says — and that somebody’s probably not Black, it’s somebody that already has money. Maybe it’s the one-percenters, or somebody that’s local, that has money, and is probably not Black. And then they get all that land. They get all of this land. They continue to create wealth, and we lose wealth.

MONICA RAINGE: Absolutely.

VERNON OAKES: Monica, thank you for illuminating this problem. I don’t know if I got any heirs that had any money down anywhere.

MONICA RAINGE: Well, thank you. I certainly want to just add a quick plug. The Federation is celebrating its 50th anniversary. And we will give light and voice to these issues during our annual meeting, conference, and celebration. And that’s gonna be August 17th and 18th over in Birmingham, Alabama, and Epes, Alabama. We would certainly like for you and all of your listeners to join us at our annual meeting, and 50th commemorative.

VERNON OAKES: I plan to be there.

MONICA RAINGE: We also have farmers’ conferences coming up where we will be doing listening sessions around the farm bill and how these issues can be illuminated in our farm bill as we prepare recommendations for the 2018 farm bill. So, we want to invite you all to our Albany Farmers’ Conference, which will be February 2nd and 3rd, and then our Mississippi Farmers’ Conference which will be March 27th through 29th.

VERNON OAKES: Okay Monica, we gotta run. Go to federation.coop. You can also donate money to help folks out with this. If you’ve got a little extra cash. They do a great job of helping Black folks and getting land. Thank you, Monica. Everybody–

MONICA RAINGE: Okay, thank you so much, Vernon. I appreciate the opportunity.

VERNON OAKES: See you next Thursday. Live cooperatively.